Last week, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Sonic the Hedgehog movie co-writers Pat Casey and Josh Miller to speak about every part Sonic the Hedgehog 3. We’ve already printed tales from this interview about Big the Cat’s almost-cameo in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Casey and Miller’s desires of constructing a The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker movie, however I had a lot enjoyable chatting with them it solely appeared write to publish the complete transcript of our Sonic banter.
Before I began recording, Casey observed a Waluigi plush hanging on the wall behind me on Zoom and began telling me about how he had been in an “on-line sketch present” years in the past the place he performed Waluigi “with prosthetics and every part.” I requested him if I might begin recording instantly, in order that’s the place we started. This transcript has been calmly edited for size and readability.
Pat Casey: I imply I do not even know if the sketch remains to be on-line. I do not even bear in mind who it was, however my subsequent door neighbor was a costume-maker and she or he was engaged on these sketches.
IGN: You stated you had prosthetics and every part?
PC: Yeah, it was nearly like 20 years in the past, however that they had a make-up artist they usually gave me the nostril and the ears they usually had been like, ‘Can you do a Waluigi impression?’ I used to be like, ‘I do not know. I do not bear in mind what he talks like’” So then I went and checked out some movies and I used to be like, “Yeah, I might do…” I imply it was simply form of like, ‘WAAAH,’ one thing like that.
Oh, my gosh. Thank you a lot for that pleasant… simply fully unrelated to Sonic, however nonetheless type of tangentially associated to video video games of our childhood story.
Josh Miller: I’m wondering if that is even findable.
PC: Dude, it was like… the early 2000s, man. I do not know what has turn into of it.
Okay, so Pat, you clearly have a online game historical past and Josh, I’m guessing you may as properly. Tell me a little bit bit about your online game historical past and particularly your previous flirtations with the Sonic franchise.
JM: I suppose it was fortuitous in a approach for us to, if we’ll do any online game factor to wind up on Sonic, we’re each of the Sega Genesis period and I might say Sonic the Hedgehog 2 might be the sport I performed probably the most rising up.
PC: Me, too. I’ve a little bit brother and we’d commerce off, however more often than not I might make him play Tails after we had been actually attempting to beat the sport.
JM: Because most two-player video games it was such as you performed after which when you died you’ll hand the controller and your buddy or sibling would play till they died. So it is like Sonic 2, it was form of, not that it was the primary recreation to do it, nevertheless it was definitely the primary recreation I actually had on a house console that was very easy and enjoyable to play with two folks concurrently. I feel that was-
PC: You received to make use of actual teamwork as a result of if you’re preventing a boss, it is Sonic’s job to remain alive and it is Tails’ job to only fling his corpse on the unhealthy man time and again and die as many instances because it takes.
JM: It was nice for if you happen to had a youthful sibling that they may very well be Tails and it was not as difficult for them to play.
PC: Maybe we must always discover that within the film someday, the truth that Tails is immortal.
So did you two find yourself taking part in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 when these video games got here out?
JM: We did, simply not, it was extra an age factor. We simply did not play them as a lot. I imply, I by no means owned a Dreamcast although, so anytime I used to be taking part in it needed to now be at a buddy’s place. The Xbox was form of my console of that period.
PC: The first time I performed Sonic Adventure was really, I had a buddy from Japan and he received the Dreamcast early earlier than I got here out right here. So I performed Sonic Adventure in Japanese and I had no thought. I couldn’t observe the story. I simply knew I used to be operating away from a whale. There was all types of nice stuff happening. Later I performed the English model. I used to be like, ‘Oh, this all is smart.’
JM: Oh, yeah. I imply I bear in mind visiting, I imply we each reside in LA now, we’re from Minnesota, however I used to be visiting a buddy in school who lived out right here they usually had the Dreamcast and I bear in mind my thoughts form of being blown by what 3D Sonic video games regarded like, however I suppose that is how older folks felt after they noticed the Genesis video games. I do bear in mind my mother strolling within the room for Sonic 1 and a pair of and simply form of being like, ‘How are you able to even inform what is going on on?’
PC: Like, ‘This is not just like the video games I performed after I was a child. This isn’t backgammon. Whatever occurred to Shoots and Ladders?’
Did both of you will have any core recollections from taking part in Sonic that made it into any of the movies, however particularly Sonic 3?
PC: When we had been writing the primary Sonic, we had been really on a very tight deadline form of for no cause. So we did not actually also have a likelihood to be like, ‘Oh wait, let’s go play the video games after which consider the story.’ We needed to provide you with the story instantly. So it was type of like-
JM: It was all sense recollections.
PC: The core recollections is all that made it into the film. It was like, there’s rings, there’s emeralds. That’s all we had been working with.
JM: You’ve received to undergo a loop. I imply, possibly that is a superb instance. It’s humorous as a result of that is such a rudimentary factor, however I really feel prefer it was all the time like, ‘How can we get them to undergo a loop de loop? I really feel like we received to get that loop de loop again in there.’
PC: But we figured that was a great way to know if one thing was necessary was like, ‘Is this one thing that we simply bear in mind all these a long time later?’ Like the issues that we bear in mind, that is the necessary half. It’s type of like, Lynyrd Skynyrd never wrote down the lyrics of their songs when they were writing. If they could not bear in mind them, then they weren’t adequate.
JM: Like Pat’s saying, we had been the Lynyrd Skynyrd of screenwriting. But additionally on the very first film, too, it was form of just like the marching orders had been a bit totally different from the place the franchise has advanced. Sega needed to view it as nearly a prequel to what was taking place with Sonic earlier than we received to him in Sonic 1.
PC: For Sonic 3, then, it was type of like, what are the necessary elements of the Shadow story from Sonic Adventure 2, which is basically, what did we already bear in mind moreso than going again and taking part in?
Yeah, Shadow being an edgy Sonic with jet-powered sneakers.
PC: Jet sneakers we by no means clarify within the film. But we needed to get him on the motorbike, give him weapons, the long-lasting imagery. Even although, why does he want a gun? Why did he ever want one?
I perceive that the story is a little bit bit darker this time round. I imply particularly as a result of Shadow is concerned. Is that right?
JM: Yes. I imply, I do know the web questioned if this one was going to be PG-13. I feel our producers and Jeff Fowler felt fairly assured the entire time that they may in some way do it justice and nonetheless have it’s PG. But yeah, I imply from the get-go the conversations had been like, ‘Well, that is the film the place a little bit lady goes to die.’
PC: We’re definitely strolling it proper as much as the sting of PG-13. But yeah, I imply it is like we’re, I suppose, 4 years into this franchise, three motion pictures in, so it is just like the franchise continues to develop up and our unique viewers is rising up. The children who had been little children for the primary one are a little bit older now. It’s a little bit alongside the strains of how Harry Potter grew together with the children, despite the fact that our CG guys do not need to undergo puberty if we do not need them to. We have management over that.
So I do know that Dragon Ball was an enormous affect on Sonic the Hedgehog, and I heard it had an affect on the movies too. Can you speak about that, or every other non-Sonic influences you used?
PC: It is true. The Chaos Emeralds and going supersonic, all these ideas had been launched to America within the Sonic video games, however the Dragon Ball manga was already out in Japan. So it is like Sonic was parodying Dragon Ball even at the moment. But it is like we in America skilled it first in Sonic earlier than Dragon Ball hit. So the affect has all the time been there. I imply, we talked about Dragon Ball within the author’s room on Sonic 1 even.
JM: But I imply, there’s, attempting to recollect. I really feel like I bear in mind Jeff [Fowler, director] saying sooner or later that we’ll be in Tokyo and Shadow’s going to get on a motorbike. So he’s like, ‘Well, we have got to do the Akira motorbike slide.’ It’s superb. I discovered a YouTube video, so I hope any person updates it now that Sonic 3’s out, however any person put collectively each TV present and film that does the Akira Slide and it is lengthy. It’s form of superb.
PC: There’s all types of references that we do not even learn about, that we do not write in essentially ‘And then they hit this pose from that factor.’ But there’s all these pose and shot homages all through all the films, and there are in all probability a bunch that Josh and I do not even catch.
JM: I’m certain it’s going to be the identical for 3… I really feel like when 2 got here out, a bunch of internet sites like, ‘All the Easter Eggs in Sonic 2,’ and I’m taking a look at it, I’m like, ‘Oh, I did not even learn about that one.’
So over the course of the movies, first we simply had Sonic after which we received Tails and Knuckles. Now we’ve Shadow, and I’m not going to spoil it for our viewers who hasn’t seen it but, however I perceive there’s one other character that’s launched on the finish of this movie probably organising extra movies to come back. How do you two resolve this development? The Sonic solid is massive!
PC: It’s definitely not solely the 2 of us deciding.
JM: That’s above our pay grade.
PC: It’s a bunch dialogue, however I feel with Sonic 1, fairly early on, as soon as we realized Tails wasn’t going to be a major character, we had been like, ‘Let’s do the teaser with Tails. Let’s make him our Nick Fury.’ When we had been engaged on Sonic 2, we had been like, ‘Who are we going to do on the finish of this film?’ And instantly Toby Ascher [producer] was similar to, ‘It’s going to be Shadow.’
JM: It’s received to be Shadow. And that I feel may be very a lot that the artistic Powers That Be on the franchise are form of attempting to gauge what they sense the hierarchy is of who followers are most enthusiastic about subsequent. That’s who we’ll do subsequent.
PC: I’ll say that the subsequent character is one which we have been eager to get in there. We know that there is a nice public demand, so I hope if you see the film later, I hope you are pleased.
Are there any obscure deep reduce characters that you simply’re like, ‘Dang, I want we might discover a approach to sneak this particular person in?’ I do know all people’s clamoring for Big the Cat.
JM: Oh, yeah. I imply that is what we all the time say. That’s our joke response. That’s not even solely a joke as a result of it is really easy to think about simply form of like a random joke you possibly can use with him.
PC: In one draft of Sonic 2, we really, after they’re going by means of the snowy mountains to the cave, we had a bit, as a result of Sonic 2 was type of an Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones, it is a trope that sooner or later a skeleton pops out at you and scares you. So we had been going to try this, however with a skeleton of a, I might say, a Big the Cat, not necessarily-
JM: Not essentially the Big the Cat.
PC: But we ended up slicing it. It did not make any sense.
The Sonic franchise through the years has been this magnet for all types of bizarre foolish concepts through the years. But you then’re additionally telling a narrative that has a little bit little bit of emotional weight to it. How do you steadiness these two issues to maintain it simply from being a humorous reference fest and be sure that there’s a little bit little bit of gravity to Sonic the Hedgehog?
JM: I do bear in mind there was a section the place we had been form of all frightened like, ‘Oh, is that this too darkish?’ But that was as a result of we had been actually simply attempting to crack the Shadow story, and when you begin dropping Sonic and Tails and particularly Donut Lord in there, then if something we’re like, ‘Oh, we received to be sure that we aren’t undermining the seriousness of Shadow’s storyline with how foolish the remainder of the film is.’
PC: And properly, Doctor Robotnik is all the time going to be very foolish too. We discovered some good pathos for him on this one as properly. But yeah, I imply it’s about simply discovering that character. Like, that was the toughest factor in creating this complete franchise was form of determining what Sonic’s deal was within the first film, and what was going to make folks hook up with him as an individual and never only a foolish animal, and discovering that want for household, and the themes of loneliness and household carrying by means of all these movies. And now form of the hitting upon the theme additionally of loss and revenge.
Well, you talked about Doctor Robotnik, so inform me about writing for Jim Carrey, particularly now that you simply’re writing not only for one Jim Carrey, however a second Jim Carrey taking part in off the primary one.
JM: Much like we’re from the Genesis technology, we’re from the rise of Jim Carrey technology and the Ace Ventura years. So simply the truth that we’ve executed three motion pictures that he is in is form of mind-boggling to us and it is tremendous enjoyable, as a result of after we wrote the primary one, we did not know that Jim was going to be Robotnik, in order that was its personal factor. But with the sequels now, it is so enjoyable as a result of we form of evaluate it to… you need him to take no matter you wrote and discover one thing even higher to do. That’s why you solid Jim Carrey. So we nearly view it as such as you’re placing him in a playground or one thing and what can we design? What can this scene be to let him go bananas and do his Jim Carrey factor?
PC: We’re attempting to offer him a comic book premise and roll out a field of toys for him. Him taking part in two characters in the identical scene collectively so usually, I imply, it was actually attention-grabbing to observe how he did it even on set, as a result of he must type of construct each performances on the similar time, however he can solely do one after the other as a result of it took hours to get into his Gerald make-up, so he would do one aspect of it, after which come again the subsequent day and do the opposite aspect, and it finally ends up slicing collectively so seamlessly. It’s loopy.
JM: We simply noticed it, I suppose that is the third time we have seen it. We noticed it yesterday in 4DX, which was nice. But yeah, the extra I see it, the extra I simply marvel at how difficult among the routines he got here up for himself to be taking part in off himself. That’s usually the form of factor that you’ve these two actors there rehearsing and honing these bits, nevertheless it was similar to, nope, it was all in his head that he had to determine.
PC: I’m campaigning Jim Carrey, Best Supporting Actor nomination.
I perceive there’s been a big quantity of improv executed by the actors, and I used to be curious the way you felt about that as writers, nevertheless it seems like at the very least with Jim Carrey, you are like, ‘Yeah, that is what he does. This is nice.’
JM: Yeah, I imply, the reality is, if the improv’s good, you all the time welcome it. It’s solely an issue if it is unhealthy. Fortunately, I feel it is a adequate artistic group that if somebody does a nasty improv, it is not like Jeff’s going to place it within the film. I imply, with Ben Schwartz, Adam Pally, individuals who it is like that is their complete bread and butter is improv.
PC: James Marsden is an underrated improviser.
JM: Yeah. I feel Jury Duty confirmed his abilities off to the world for the primary time.
PC: And if an actor comes up with an amazing line and it makes the film, we’re all the time pleased to take credit score for different folks.
This is near my coronary heart as a result of the reminiscence I’ve of Sonic Adventure 2 is the Chao Garden. I misplaced it after I noticed the trailer of the solid within the Chao Garden, which is now mainly the Chuck E. Cheese of the Sonic world, I suppose. Tell me about adapting that. How did you come to this? Are Chao even actual on this world, or are they… what’s taking place?
JM: You by no means know. Who is aware of what number of sequels they will find yourself doing? I feel a part of the logic was that Jeff has no fast plans for the Chaos to actually be in, and we already had that set piece, as a result of that is an actual kind of restaurant that Jeff had encountered whereas selling, I feel, Sonic 2 in Tokyo. So we simply thought-
PC: We thought it will be humorous, yeah, that it is a place the place Sonic and the opposite critters can go with no disguise as a result of they simply mix in. I imply, clearly in actual life, would that work? Would folks assume they’re folks in large plush costumes? Perhaps not. But with the suspension of disbelief with movie, you possibly can imagine it. It’s like, ‘Oh, we’ll have a theme restaurant.’ And it is like, ‘Of course it must be a Chao Garden.’
PC: It may very well be primarily based on the true Chao.
JM: Indeed. But yeah, I feel within the context of this film, Jeff simply thought it will be a humorous, humorous nod to the Chaos and followers love or love-hate relationship with Chaos, I suppose, relying on-
Who hates Chao? Who’s doing that?
JM: People with no soul.
PC: I inform you what, Josh, final evening watching the film, I noticed they reduce out a shot that we noticed in an early reduce that was, I assumed was the funniest shot within the film. It’s of the Chao, like on fireplace.
JM: Oh, you are proper. Every time I watch it, I simply, my mind places it within the film.
PC: We need to confront the group about this. What occurred to that shot of the Chao getting killed?
JM: Maybe that is what was going to push us to PG-13. It’d be like, ‘You cannot have a Chao on fireplace. Kids are going to expire of the theater screaming.’
Before the Sonic trilogy got here out, there was loads of discuss, at the very least in online game areas, about the truth that online game motion pictures had been type of cursed to be not excellent. I feel that is largely been damaged lately, not simply by the Sonic motion pictures, however we have had Detective Pikachu, there’s been a number of different actually stable online game movies. And you two have been an enormous a part of that, having these pretty profitable, very satisfying online game motion pictures. Are there every other video video games that you’d wish to adapt sometime as movies since this has clearly gone very properly for you?
JM: I really feel like sadly we won’t really reply your query as a result of there’s going to be a few issues we’re attempting to get going subsequent yr.
Are there any that you simply’re not engaged on in any respect you can say?
PC: I used to be going to say, we have already written a script for It Takes Two, which hopefully we’ll get some excellent news on transferring ahead within the subsequent yr.
JM: What’s an previous recreation that we’re in all probability not going to adapt, that also would’ve been enjoyable?
PC: We’ve talked about Golden Axe. Golden Axe was one other good Genesis multiplayer recreation.
JM: A Boy and His Blob.
PC: Oh yeah, that might work. Or the 7-Up recreation in regards to the dot having a platforming journey. [Cool Spot]
JM: I feel one other simple one I feel we are able to reply as a result of the film’s already taking place and we’re already not doing it will be a Zelda. I bear in mind all the time after we performed Wind Waker, we had been all the time like, man, I imply, it will in all probability be bizarre in the event that they made a Zelda film to start out with Wind Waker versus the extra basic Hyrule. But we each liked Wind Waker and it is so cinematic. Yeah. So after they make this Zelda film, I suppose we’re placing it on the market on this planet, possibly we are able to do a Wind Waker spin-off.
Rebekah Valentine is a senior reporter for IGN. You can discover her posting on BlueSky @duckvalentine.bsky.social. Got a narrative tip? Send it to rvalentine@ign.com.
